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Round 5
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Rick
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Raleigh, NC
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Another tactical question: Why didn't they extract by air?
Even if there was no place to land they could have used a
roof top. Also why weren't attack birds standing by in case
of trouble?
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Mark Bowden
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Too many men, too many prisoners. Speed was the key to mission success. It's one thing to rope 100 men down out of helicopters (and, remember, the Blackhawks could not land on the streets), quite another to upload 100 plus 24 prisoners.
MB
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John Smith
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Anytown, USA
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Why question whether there was "murder" of civilians? Are you kidding me? There was not an innocent person in those streets. The horror of the situation plagues me and will for the remainder of my life. We tried to eliminate the "warlords" on that day so the general public could lead a "normal" life and the entire time were treated like pariah's. Ugh!!!
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Robert Redding
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Erie, COlorado
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Mr. Bowden, I am very interested in receiving a copy of the
video documentary. I do not live where I will be able to
view it. However, I would like to be able to use it as an
instructional tool for other soldiers. Where can I get a
copy of it?
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Mark Bowden
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Details on obtaining a copy of the documentary will be available in early 1998.
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DEO
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Kansas City, Missouri
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Great Job Mr. Bowden! These young men are getting the praise they so richly deserve. Our prayers to the familys of those lost. I feel lucky to know Clay Othic, and I want you to know, he has been known to shoot chickens for a long time now. Thanks again.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks. Clay also kept a pretty cool diary.
MB
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Steve
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Milford, CT
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Mr. Bowden: Your well written series is very important in providing a look into what really happened to "our" guys. Let us not forget, these men and their families. They should be recognized, decorated, and be remembered- living & dead- as true heroes. Any plans for that?
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Mark Bowden
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I hope the series, film and book (Fall, 1998) accomplish some of that.
MB
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Kevin Berry
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Fremont, CA
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Were any RPGs fired at helicopters during previous raids?
(Before 3 Oct 93)
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Mark Bowden
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Yes. A 10th Mountain Division Blackhawk was shot down about 10 days before this mission by an RPG, and pilots were aware that the crude missiles were in the air. Never in such quantity as Oct. 3rd, however. Aidid achieved tactical surprise by having so many RPGs to shoot.
MB
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David Smith
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Philadelphia, PA
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Outstanding Job, Mark - you're a credit to your profession!
In regard to the question of why a P-3 was there, I'm sure
it was an EP-3. They're packed with some of our best
sensory gear and do a lot of "black" work, in some ways
similar to MC-130's. Again, great job.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks, although the official record says it was a P-3, and the aviator who flew it assures me it was.
MB
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David C. Peters
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Philadelphia, PA
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Could you give me some idea as to why some documents are
still classified. Are they worried about national security
or covering someone's behind who flubbed?
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Mark Bowden
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In some cases there were local spies whose identities need to be protected. There is also a need to protect some of the technological and weapons capabilities. Also a little bit of cover-yer-ass, I suspect.
MB
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DCP
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Philadelphia, PA
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Can you recommend any materials for me to read to learn
about the differences between the Delta Force, Rangers and
Seals? Do SEALs have the same code of silence that the
Deltas do?
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Mark Bowden
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SEALs were no easier for me to reach than D-boys. I'd go to the nearest bigbarn book outlet or library and check out the military rack. Look for "Delta Force," by Col. Charlie Beckwith. It tells you how they were formed and a lot about training and qualifications. There are other less substantive books about the other units. Also, you could call your local recruiter. They have pamphlets and informational booklets on all the special forces, including the Marines.
MB
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DCP
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Philly, PA
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If you do the radio interview that was proposed on the last
round of questions, would you let us know about it in
advance? I would love to hear it.
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Mark Bowden
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I am currently scheduled to appear at 9 AM on Friday, Nov. 28th, on CSPAN TV; at 10 AM Monday, Dec. 1st, on Radio Times on WHYY-FM, 91 on the dial in Philadelphia; and on Wednesday morning on NPR's morning edition nationally. No set time.
MB
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roy
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euless texas
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could just one M1 ABRHAMS prevented all of this this your story is riveting and you are fortunate to have the sources look forward to the book .
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Mark Bowden
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I doubt the tank could have prevented everything. I do know that TFR's commanders did not request tanks and felt they would be vulnerable moving through city streets. See Gen. William Garrison's testimony before the Senate Armed Forces Committee in 1994.
MB
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Tom Kanyak
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Swoyersville, Pa
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Thanks for the riveting series. This battle reminds me so
much of Custer at the Little Big Horn. In both cases we
grossly underestimated the size of the enemy. The difference
was Custer didn't have Choppers..
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Mark Bowden
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You're welcome. I am struck also by the similarity. Check out "Son of the Morning Star," if you haven't already. A nice model for my book, which will be out in Fall, 1998.
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Major Chuck Harrison
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FT Hood, TX
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I was too quick to judge, I apologize, it is not worthless journalism, I appreciate your efforts to show bravery. There are still glaring errors but I understand your intent now. You stated you had access to classified material. Can't help but wonder how you got it? Last time I checked, thats a no-no.
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Mark Bowden
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Apology accepted. I remain eager to correct any errors. One of the great advantages of online journalism is that I can reach back and correct anything that's wrong instantaneously. For instance, a Blackhawk pilot and gunner called to tell me that the miniguns on their aircraft fire only 4,000 rpm, not 6,000 rpm, as the encyclopedia I consulted said. We will made the correction. Any detail, large or small. I also have months left before I finish the book. My goal is to be as accurate as possible. So, please, if you can help me, I'd be grateful. Call 215-854-2400.
As for classified material, certain people in possession of information about the battle, documents, tapes, etc., felt strongly about having an accurate version of the story told. Leaks are as old as secrets.
MB
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Bruce Shelton
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Albuquerque, NM
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I am an Air Force Captain in training in the MH-53J Pave Low special operations helicopter. I was wondering if I could get a copy of the complete story to disseminate to the other pilots and crew members in training here. I beilieve your story of what happened is one that we all need to read. We in the
Pave Low fly the same mission. I can be reached at e-mail: SPEEDY53J@aol.com. Thanks for your help.
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Mark Bowden
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Reprints of the entire series can be ordered from the Inquirer at 215-854-4984. The book, which will be far more detailed, will be out next Fall.
MB
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Tom Messner
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Springfield, PA
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My father was a WWII Paratrooper. He participated in many
battles and firefights. My father didn't like to talk much
about his war experience. I never truly understood what went
on durring combat until your series. I look forward to
reading the book. Thank You.
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Mark Bowden
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Thank you, Tom.
MB
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John
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Phila Pa
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The lack of tanks ahas been alluded to several times in the
questions, Cound an RPG take out a Heavy Tank? Did the
Somalia's have any other weapons to take out an heavy tank?
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Mark Bowden
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I'm no expert, but Gen. Garrison seemed to think so in his testimony before the Armed Services Committee. RPGs were the heaviest weapons the Somalis had. Heavy tanks were picked to pieces in urban fighting in Chechnya.
MB
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Bob Simon
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Harleysville,PA
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Sorry ,Mark ,I couldn't resist using this! Please keep us
posted as to whether or not Major Chuck Harrison,who was
thus far the only respondent critical of your
account,actually calls you.
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Mark Bowden
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Still genuinely hoping to hear from the Major.
MB
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J. Stefula
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Bronws Mills, NJ
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Delta Unit was a Troop or one sqdn.? Total of 60 personnel?
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Mark Bowden
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Squadron C from Bragg. About 60 of the men were combat personnel, I believe.
MB
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10th MTN
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FT POLK NOW
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Who did you interview from the 10th MTN Rescue???
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Mark Bowden
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I have interviewed some but not enough members of the 10th. They will be appearing in the newspaper series in the coming days. As you know, I'm sure, the 10th entered the fight later in the afternoon and night. Anyone who was with the Mountain Division who would like to talk to me, please call 215-854-2400. I probably won't be able to reach everyone in time for the newspaper series, but there's still time for their stories to be part of the book.
MB
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running fire
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ft campbell
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Excellent series. Still no mention of the part little bird
gunships played in the battle.
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Mark Bowden
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You're right. Too much going on at the same time and not enough space. The Little Birds role in holding back the crowds around crash site one will be detailed, although I'm sure I'll never be able to write enough to fully capture the gratitude felt by the men on the ground (or the fear felt by the Somalis at the receiving end.) Keep reading.
MB
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little hunter
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Wichita, Kansas
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Dear Mark, Doing a great job, already receiving chicken
jokes. Will call soon, hunting season you know, have to have
my priorities. Want to know a little info about my
pictures. Hope you are having a great Thanksgiving.
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Mark Bowden
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Shoot straight, Clay. Your pictures are safe and sound. We're using a lot of them.
MB
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EX-D-BOY
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Southeastern USA
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Mark-great story! One comment...We did not kill anyone that didn't either have a gun or was about to bring harm to us. Women and children were shooting at us just as the men. I would appreciate it if all of those officer that want to prosecute us leave this matter alone!!!
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks.
MB
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raz
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bloomsbury, NJ
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Where/what was "Plan B," and when did the commanders first
realize there was a major problem?
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Mark Bowden
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The first downed helicopter was a big problem. The second downed helicopter overloaded the system. There was something of a ground force available to attempt a rescue at Durant's site (the 2nd one) but clearly inadequate. The big miscalculation was underestimating the capability of RPGs to shoot down Blackhawks. Five were shot down that day (three were nursed back to base by superb pilots, or things would have been that much worse).
MB
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curious
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Did talking to any of the parents/wives/children of the
Fallen TF Ranger heroes change how you treated their deaths?
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Mark Bowden
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No. I did speak to the families of those about whom I had significant new information, or more details about their deaths, before the story started running.
MB
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curious
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Did you have an opionion of Mike Durant before you
interviewed him - did this change afterwards?
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Mark Bowden
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No.
MB
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curious
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Speaking of interviews - was any attempt made to interview
the chickens family?
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Mark Bowden
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Interviewed them at length, although you can imagine the difficulties finding a translator for a Somali chicken. They were, as you can imagine, bitter and outraged. Awaiting reparations.
MB
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Curious
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Can you shed some light on why you started the book
research. Reason for asking is - do you feel this reason
played a role in getting interviews with the people?
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Mark Bowden
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I answered this in an earlier round. My interest grew out of a long conversation with the father of a Ranger killed that day. He did a lot to initially open the door to soldiers who are understandably wary of the press.
MB
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Curious
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What limitations were placed on you for interviewing the
active duty people?
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Mark Bowden
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In most cases a public information specialist or commanding officer sat in on the interview, and interrupted only to steer the conversation away from sensitive topics.
MB
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N. Trulock
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McLean, VA
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Powerful.Can't wait for the book. Such a sad story, but so
much bravery. Look forward to seeing CSPAN appearance. Was
this a glimpse of the future?
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Mark Bowden
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In the sense that the US is likely to commit small units on limited missions around the world, it is. I certainly hope that what happened in Mogadishu that day won't be repeated (although war is war, and once the metal starts to fly, bad things happen to everybody).
MB
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Curious
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Are you going to cover Shughart's fathers remarks to
President Clinton at the White House. Those remarks went
largely unreported in the US.
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Mark Bowden
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Keep reading.
MB
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Delta John
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Bragg
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Mark, I'll get your number out to the guys along with your
interview invitation; I can tell you that most of them will
be real leary of talking. If you get any, I promise you
will be astounded by so many incredible accounts.
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Mark Bowden
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I hope they decide to help. If they don't, I expect them to hold their grumbling about my not getting things right. My information is only as good as my sources.
MB
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Delta John
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Bat cave
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As it was explained to me there in-country, the P3 Orion had
a sensor that could detect a large concentration of metal in
one spot such as a submarine--or in the case of in
Mogadishu--a large weapons cache. That's what Orion was
looking for. I'm not the expert...
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Mark Bowden
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This is new to me.
MB
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Delta John
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Bragg
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I can't fight back the impulse to tell Maj Rupert "look at
me, I fly Air Force Pave low" that we D-Boys would sooner
depend on an elderly Chinese guy pulling a rick shaw than
ride one of his helo's. Stand behind Task Force 160 and
take notes! Army
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Mark Bowden
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Calm down, boys.
MB
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Delta John
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Behind the fence
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Mark, give me an idea of what P...I mean "Steave" had to go
through to clear his interview with you through the proper
channels; that way I might be able to get you some more
sources. The guys are going to be extremely leary
otherwise. You won't be sorry.
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Mark Bowden
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In "Steve's" case, I made initial contact with him. He was eager to talk, and urged me to make a formal request to interview him through the Pentagon's media affairs office. I did. They approved the request. "Steve's" commanding officer sat in on the interview and appeared as enthralled as I was.
MB
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Curious
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Can you explain why some of the "quiet professional" as you
understand it. Generally it is known that those who talk the
most did the least (ex. I fly Pave Lows)and why people
decided to talk to you.
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Mark Bowden
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They spoke because existing accounts of the battle , they felt, had gotten it wrong. I learned that men who experience combat generally want people (at least the right people) to know about what happened, exactly what happened. In this case they felt information about the battle had been tailored to suit the needs of various factions involved.
MB
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Peacekeeper
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Bosnia
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Your article should be mandatory reading for all Americans
in Bosnia. It certainly has re-energized my force
protection thoughts. I'm sure the same firepower is readily
available here. What are your thoughts on Bosnia?
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Mark Bowden
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I am not really qualified to comment. I've never been there or studied it. From where I sit, it looks like the military intervention successfully stopped Serbian aggression, but there is little guarantee that the situation will not degenerate quickly once US troops are withdrawn. In Mogadishu we got in trouble by picking sides -- although, had things gone differently in Somalia, or had the US government decided to press on with renewed purpose after Oct. 3rd, there might have been a completely different outcome.
MB
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I was there
|
Clarksville, TN
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I flew with CW3 Jollotta on Super 68 the CSAR aircraft and his first name is Dan not Keith. You need to talk about what the CSAR members had to go through once they were on the ground at Super 61crash site. I have read nothing on their actions and I know they was not having a picnic at that crash site.
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Mark Bowden
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Keep reading. I'm sorry about getting Dan Jollota's name wrong in answering a question here. It is correct in the story, and an account of his heroism and your unit's is on the horizon. I interviewed Al Lamb, Tim Wilkinson and Rob Phipps, and would like to talk to you. My number is 215-854-2400.
MB
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S.A.T
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Clarksville, TN
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You need to talk about the efforts of the crews of the other 3 Blackhawks that was shot down to land them safely so that there were no other fatalities. It took all the crews experience and ability to land those wounded aircraft without killing anybody on board.
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Mark Bowden
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Some of that is coming in this series. The book will also tell the story of Super 68's crash. There just isn't enough room for everything in the newspaper series. The book will be out Fall, 1998.
MB
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Paul Gronke
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Durham, NC (Duke University)
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Mr. Bowden,
Thanks for a wonderful series and site. I wonder if you
have considered add'l site and material development for the
academic world. This site is already being accessed by many
IR classes that I know of. A set of case study materials
linked to the site and articles could be valuable, and
perhaps moderately lucrative. Nice site and excellent
series.
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Mark Bowden
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Thank you, Paul. Your suggestions for expanding the site should be directed to the online editor, Jennifer Musser, at 215-854-4474, or jmusser@phillynews.com.
MB
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Wm. Simpson
|
Bothell, WA
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To Mark Bowden & The Phil. Inquirer;
Great piece of work! These articles on the Somalia mission
offer a eye-opening story about this episode.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks.
MB
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Cameron
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TN
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First,let me say that this is a great series. Second you
mentioned that the videos were made by KR Video. Do they
have an e-mail address? Again thanks for writing this. I
look forward to your book.
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Mark Bowden
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They do, but I'm afraid I don't know it. You can call filmmaker Chris Mills at 215-854-4616. He'll be glad to hear from you.
Thanks
MB
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Jim Clark
|
philly
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When will you mentioned the fact of our troops going into combat in "convertibles" (open hummers) instead of the more secured APC's that Les Aspin held back for comectic reasons. When will the public demand that our leader's fully back our military when they are c ommitted to hostile enviroments. Heck in Beirut troops where forbidden to chamber rounds.
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Mark Bowden
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Keep reading.
MB
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Dave
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Boston, MA
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enjoying the series... am interested in role played by Air
Force personel... understood several were involved in
ground fighting already discussed, and don't see any in the
"who's who"...
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Mark Bowden
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Keep reading.
MB
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Bill W.
|
C'ville VA
|
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Super job, Mark; You're doing a great journalistic service.
So little has adequately described the situation so well.
Some of these Q's & As exemplify what I'm saying.
That was bitter fighting, but MG Garrison's finest hours came later, as he fended off the Mon AM QBs. RLTW.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks. Keep reading.
MB
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Karl A. Loose
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Pennsauken, NJ
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I want to compliment you on this poweful, moving story. You captured the fear, terror, and bravery of our forces unlike anything I've eve read. I look forward to the book and TV special. Congratulations.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks, Karl.
MB
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R. J. May
|
St. Lawrence, PA
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You keep mentioning SEALs but I have trouble following which sailors (soldiers) are which. Do you list the baranches othe DF members?
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Mark Bowden
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All Delta Force personnel are Army. Where there is a SEAL mentioned I identify him as such.
MB
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Jon
|
Honolulu, HI
|
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Why a P-3 for surveillance? Simply put, it was the best
equipped platform for the mission, and it was available.
One could ask why a carrier battle group was sent AFTER the
3October dabacle as well.
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Jon
|
Honolulu, HI
|
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Great work! Long overdue. I was on the carrier that arrived
just after 3 Oct. I stewed after we left and Aideed was
ferried to Ethiopia for a peace conference by us. Your work
ensures nobody will ever forget the price paid. Thanks.
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Mark Bowden
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Thank you.
MB
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L. Bruno
|
Houston, Texas
|
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Why were there no APC's or even Bradley's for the original
convoy? They might as well have sent them out in
Oldsmobiles. Who is responsible for the lack of armored
vehicles?
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Mark Bowden
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Keep reading.
MB
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