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Round 4
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Ret Infantryman
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Springfield, VA
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Your story about one of the fiercest, intense firefights in-
volving U.S. soldiers needs to be told. As any combat vet
knows---when the rounds are cracking, soldiers fight for
themselves and their buddies, not presidents, generals or
policies. Great series. Thanks
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Mark Bowden
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Thank you.
MB
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Frank Kuschnereit
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Fredericton,NB Canada
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Why were there no M1 tanks availible for support? The
Humvee is only a jeep on steriods. Your descriptions of the
emotions and trauma of combat are moving. Did the soldiers
receive any treatment for Post Traumatic Stress?
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Mark Bowden
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Tanks were never requested by the commanders of Task Force Ranger. In Chechnya, rebels made short work of tanks on city streets, and given the rapid snatch-and-grab design of the missions, tanks were never part of the package. Bradley Fighting vehicles were requested, and turned down by Sec. of Defense Les Aspin, a decision which contributed mightily to his stepping down not long after the battle.
At the end of the story I will address how the events of that day have left lasting effects on the men involved. Some have sought counseling.
MB
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DT
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Colorado Sorings
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Great Series! Other good accounts of the battle are in Savage Peace by Daniel Bolger and Mogadishu! Heroism and Tragedy by DeLong and Tuckey.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks
MB
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skinny
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Mark, It has been reported that by Monday morning, 18 Americans were dead and 73 wounded. News reports also mentioned that there were a handfull of MIA's. With the exception of Chief Durant, do you know what happened to the rest of them? Can you also tell me how many Americans died on flights to Germany? Did you discover anything about blood shortages at the field hospital?
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Mark Bowden
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The crew of Durant's chopper and Shughart and Gordon, the D-boys who went in to help them, were considered missing for several days after the fight. Their bodies were all recovered.
There will be more about the medical situation toward the end of the series. Keep reading.
MB
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Bob
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Fayetteville, nc
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Will a portion of your book sales be donated to the
families of those who died in battle in Solmalia.
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Mark Bowden
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Assuming the book makes money (I haven't even written it yet) I think that would be highly appropriate.
MB
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Joe Milano
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Norristown,PA
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Nice piece. I've actually tried to read ahead. I especially
like the electronic version. How long did you work on it?
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks, Joe. I worked on the project part time for about a year and full time since February. The webpage is the work of Jennifer Musser here at Philly Online. I agree with you. It's cool.
MB
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Anthony Murphy
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Point Marion, PA
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Great series. I was in OBC on my way to Fort Campbell when
the raid happened. One of the Rangers who died was a kid
who lived across the river from where I grew up. I don't
remember his name, but I do remember reading about him in
the local paper. At the end of the series, do you plan on
compiling a list of the perished with their bios or obits?
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Mark Bowden
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Yes. And thanks.
MB
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dave hall
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washington TWP, NJ
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Fascinating piece. I consider myself to be well-informed, but had no idea about how this unfolded. I even remember the Durant incident as an isolated event. How was this presented at the time? Was the ferocity of the battle downplayed? Or was I not paying attention?
My admir. for our fighting forces increases w/each word...
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Mark Bowden
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There were no American reporters in Mogadishu when the battle happened. Somalia was dying out as a story, and the actions of Task Force Ranger were considered secret. Rick Atkinson of the Washington Post went back and reconstructed an excellent and amazingly accurate overview of the battle for that newspaper, which ran in 1993. I do think some of the battle's ferocity was downplayed by officials in Mogadishu.
MB
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Dan Diemer
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Kennesaw,GA.
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Mark, I am glad to see the truth of what went down over there finally get out. My brother Dave was stationed at Benning and being in Georgia I had the pleasure of meeting a lot of the other Rangers. It's good to see them getting the respect they deserve. Dan Diemer, Hey Dave what's going on?
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks, Dan. And, Dave, call your brother.
MB
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Major Chuck Harrison
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Fort Hood, TX
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Once again, you are another "wanna be" that promotes the all out lies and half truths associated with this battle. This is an inaccurate, bogus and worthless piece of journalism. Why can't you guys get it right? I was flying one of those little bird guns.
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Mark Bowden
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Please call me at 215-854-2400. If I have made mistakes I will fix them, and I would be very interested in anything you have to add.
MB
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Joseph F. Burns
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Atco, NJ
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I spoke with my nephew, John Burns sunday night. I
explained the article to him and gave him your phone number.
He said he would call you.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks. He did.
MB
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Dan
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Rockville, MD
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I am absolutely stunned by the story. Thank you for telling
a story that was mostly ignored by others. What is the
saying about "extraordinary heroism being ordinary that
day?"
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks, Dan. More to come.
MB
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JCB
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Cincinnati, OH
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Great series, very difficult going at times - brings back
tough memories. Was a member of the Combat Search and
Rescue (CSAR) team flying on Super 68 that roped in on the
first crash site.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks. I would be interested in hearing your account of the fight. Please call me at 215-854-2400.
MB
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Jim Calpin
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Reston, VA
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Will you be making any more audio clips available of the
live radio transmissions? Is a transcript available
anywhere?
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Mark Bowden
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There will be more excerpts. The transcript remains, for some reason, classified.
MB
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Richardson
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Harrisburg, PA
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I can only say thank you to ALL those who serve in the
military. This story brings to reality how trivial our every
day problems are compared to what these men must face at
various times. Again THANK You
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David Bagnoli
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Philadelphia, PA
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Great series. As a USAF vet I'm concerned those who question
the soldiers actions fail to realize their role as an arm of
US policy. Soldiers, Airmen, Marines and Sailors carry out
our nation's policies- they do not get to choose when or
where. I recommend Atlantic Monthly article from summer 97
regarding separation between those who serve and civilians.
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Ranger wife
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Chicago, IL
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Just sat down and read all the Q&A's - was stunned at the
people who accuse the Rangers of murder. Do these people
have no concept of what we ask our young soldiers to
experience? They weren't having fun that day...
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Ranger wife
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Chicago, IL
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Still peeved about the readers who feel the Rangers were
"killing innocent women and children" who were being used as
human shields to protect those who were trying to kill my
husband. Unlike those who commented, my husband will be
living with his actions for the rest of his life...
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Redleg
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Edison, NJ
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MB, positively captivating. AHagen is right, America is growing, many now consider humanitarian interventions legitimate. We were trying to save lives and build democracy, and just like the Rangers, America should lead.
Rangers=Heros. Thanks MB for RESPECTFUL SCRUTINY - you are restoring the Media's damaged rep.
hlhill@erols.com.
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Mark Bowden
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Thank you.
MB
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JB
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Can you clarify why your version of who gave Mike Durant
the weapon? The Official account has it opposite.
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Mark Bowden
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This is a fascinating question. In the official
account, Randy Shughart was killed first and Gary
Gordon came back around the helicopter, gave
Durant a weapon, tried to radio for help, etc. A
Delta soldier I interviewed who knew both Shughart
and Gordon convinced me that it was the opposite.
He heard Randy radio twice for help. Gordon and
Shughart carried different customized weapons, and
the one handed Durant's was almost certainly
Gordon's, not Shughart's. Gordon would not have
handed Durant his own weapon, so it was more
likely Shughart who did the handing. Lastly, in
his witness statement, Durant said he recognized
Gordon because he had attended flight briefings.
Actually, it was Shughart who had attended these
briefings. I spoke with Durant on Friday, and while
reluctant to see the official story altered, he
said he could not be certain which man was which
(very understandably under the circumstances). I
believe Shughart did the things the official
account attributes to Gordon. Both men, as Durant
pointed out, acted with extraordinary selfless
heroism.
MB
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LT
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Warminster, PA
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great series. My heart goes out to two delta snipers shugart and gordon. if the blackhawk commander was going to put them on the ground then cover them don't leave them alone.
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Mark Bowden
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Thank you. Others in Delta feel the way you do.
MB
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Marko
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Nashua, NH
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The Medal of Honor citations state that Randy Shughart went
down before Gordon, and I've heard that those two fought
the Somalis for longer than a few minutes before they were
gunned down. Do you have any information on how long the
fight at the second crash site lasted?
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Mark Bowden
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I believe they held off the Somalis for nearly two
hours, maybe a little more, maybe a little less.
MB
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Brad Colip
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Greenfield, IN
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In reference to the P-3 Orion, why were they using an
anti-submarine aircraft for photo-recon? This is not it's
primary mission. I am perplexed on why one would be there in
the first place unless the Navy was wanting to get a "piece
of the action" (example: Desert One). This is a very good
series, can't wait for the book!!!!
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Mark Bowden
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I think you hit the nail on the head. It was a
"joint" operation, hence the SEALs, Air Force PJs,
etc. Everybody wanted a piece.
MB
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1stFO
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Chicago, IL
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I was dismayed to read Maj Harrison's comment. From the air,
I'm sure that the battle looked much different, however as a
Ranger on the ground that day, I find your portrayal of the
events highly accurate as do the majority of the soldiers
involved. Thank you.
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Mark Bowden
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I am curious myself. I hope to hear from Maj.
Harrison. The story is drawn directly from the
accounts of men who were there, not from official
sources. The radio quotes are from the actual
radio transmissions. And I watched videotape of
the battle. If I've made mistakes, I want to know.
I will correct them.
MB
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DAN
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LAWRENCE, NJ
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YOU STATED EARLIER THE WIDE DISCREPANCIES
OF BODY COUNTS FOR THE SOMALI'S. BUT YOU DIDNT GIVE ANY NUMBERS. WHAT WHERE SOME OF THE FIGURES?
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Mark Bowden
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I believe (and this is a rough estimate) 500
Somalis died in the battle, and more than 1,000 were
injured. Ambassador Robert Oakley, President
Clinton's special envoy to Somalia, says he
believed 1,000 Somalis died that day. Official
estimates were taken from hospital counts, but
many of the dead were buried without going to a
hospital. Given the flimsy architecture in
Mogadishu, and the sheer volume of fire, anyone in
the densely populated neighborhoods where the
fighting took place was at dire risk, indoors or
out.
MB
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Kent Jones
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Philadephia, PA
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I was the CommO for BLT 1/9, the ground combat element of
the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit which was sent to Somalia
as a result of the Battle of Mogadishu (we were on our way
to Australia, oh well).
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Kent Jones
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Philadephia, PA
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While there we conducted a joint/combined “show of force” op
with elements of an Army mechanized company and Nigerian
military forces. Do you have a feel for the Somalis view
of/respect for US and UN forces before and after the battle?
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Mark Bowden
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Their feelings are all mixed up with patriotism,
clan loyalty, anger, outrage . . . October 3rd is
celebrated by the Habr Gidr as Ma'alinti Rangers,
The Day of the Rangers, and is the occasion for
much dance and celebration. They regard it as a
national victory. Somali streetfighters say they
would have killed the Rangers with their bare
hands if it weren't for the helicopters. But wiser
heads speak with sad, bitter and knowing respect
of American military capability and skill.
MB
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Kent Jones
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Philadephia, PA
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To Frank Kuschnereit: When we conducted our "show of force
op" we put together a signifigant fighting force consisting
of Army M1-A1s, Bradleys, and M111 APCs; Marine AAVs and
LAVs (the Nigerians had no signifigant armor). Mark do you
no how long after the battle did the first heavy Army units
arrive in Mog?
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Mark Bowden
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I think it started arriving Oct. 5th, but I'm not
sure.
MB
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LWH
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McGuire AFB
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I see your getting alot of e-mail input from TFR or DF personnel not yet interviewed. Do you plan on incorporating into the book any additional interviews that were not made when these 30 chapters were published? By the way, great job researching your material!
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Mark Bowden
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Yes. The number of DF men interviewed is very
small. They have a strong policy of not talking to
people like me. The number of TFR soldiers
interviewed mounts daily. I will interview as many
men as I can find until I run out of time. The
series is neccessarily limited by the space
available in the newspaper -- which, given 30
parts, has been pretty generous. The series
amounts to about a third of the book.
MB
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Jack
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Bartow, Fl
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Will this be aired only in Pa? If so how can I get an uncut copy of the program? If it will be aired all over; what was the date and time again?
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Mark Bowden
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It will be aired nationally. We just don't have a
date yet. Details on obtaining a copy of the documentary will be available in early 1998.
MB
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Herb
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Wilmington
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The series is terrific in print and online. Thank you, the Inquirer and the online folks. How did the Somalis treat you and what is the perspective on USA over there?
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Mark Bowden
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Thank you. Many of the Somalis we met treated us
with friendship and kindness. There is lingering
bitterness and anger toward the UN, but little
directed at the US. On the streets, mobs would
form wherever we went, and in that number there
were some who were clearly outraged to find
Americans walking around their streets. We had
hired protection, and we limited our stays in any
one place. There is no government there, so we
were mostly concerned about being robbed or
kidnapped, but the men we hired treated us
honorably and a number of people went to great
lengths to be helpful. The Habr Gidr leaders told
us to leave, that we were not welcome. We stayed
anyway for seven days, and no one harmed us.
MB
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Dan
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Burlington, CT
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Will you discuss the involvement of the 10th Mtn Div, particularly the actions of the Attack Helicopter Bn? My son was a Cobra pilot in the middle of this and has written a history of their engagement. Also will you discuss the amazing story of the Pakistani's and their tanks?
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Mark Bowden
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Yes. In the series all these things will not be
discussed in detail, just given the space
limitations. But I hope to do a fuller job in the
book, which will be out in the Fall of 1998. If
your son would like to contact me, I'd like to
hear from him. My number is 215-854-2400.
Thanks
MB
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Dan
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Burlington, CT
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Can you tell me how to obtain a copy of the Senate Armed Services Committee report on this affair. I think it was released in 1995. My senators' offices won't respond.
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Mark Bowden
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I would call the Armed Services Committee
directly. That's how I got mine.
MB
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1SG Andrew Hall
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Norristown, PA
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To follow up, Hummers come in several variants. Cargo types are distinguished by the high canvac covers on them. The typr you describe is a "gun jeep" vehicle with Kevlar armor protection. These hard tops are what you are describing. Not the cargo Hummer.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks. There were both cargo and gun humvees in
the convoys that day. I do not always designate
which is which.
MB
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1SG Hall
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Norristown, PA
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In your story on Durant's bird and the fate of MSG Shugart and SFC Gordon, why did you not mention that they begged, pleaded, and argued to be put on the ground? They displayed that intestinal fortitude so many are unwilling to sacrifice. For that they recieved the Medal of Honor.
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Mark Bowden
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While Shughart and Gordon were both ready and
willing to get on the ground, neither was
connected to the chopper intercom, and neither,
according to Mike Goffena, the pilot, communicated
anything about the matter beforehand.
MB
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Walt Shumate
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Valhalla, NC
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"Holding a baby on one arm, she raised a pistol..." (Ch.11, p.4) APPALLING! You mean Aideed didn't have day care centers for the children of mothers HE sent to slaughter the way Clinton's ready to do ? Maybe you should rethink this whole women-in-combat thing, Mr. & Ms. President !
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Rick
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Raleigh, NC
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A couple of tactical questions: After the Pakistani were
ambushed why didn't they anticipate the ambush of the
vehicles?
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Mark Bowden
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I have not studied the Paki ambush. As for TFR,
they relied on surprise and speed. Usually they
were in and out of a place too fast for any
concerted attack to take place. They got stuck
because the helicopters were shot down, something
thought a lot less likely than it turned out to
be (five helicopters were shot down that day.
Three made it back to base).
MB
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