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Round 18
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J Langdon
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Sgt USMC
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Q&A 6 asked about fast-movers: A:- Fixed-wing (jet) attack aircraft, so the Rangers and D-Boys would have had to make it a more "joint" operation to get fixed-wing aircraft from the Air Force or Marines.
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J Langdon
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Sgt USMC
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Additionally, to roll a fast-mover in, the helicopters would have to be moved off-target first, allowing the Somalis a chance to move in closer on the ground. Jets can't see straight down an alley the way a door-gunner can.
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J Langdon
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Sgt USMC
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Outstanding series! As a Marine Sergeant and Desert Storm veteran, this piece answers many questions we raised about the awarding of Medals of Honor in "a dust-bowl country." Apologies to those whose heroism and valor I have unknowingly questioned.
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Mark Bowden
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Thank you, sergeant.
MB
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DGBrown
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Katterbach, Germany
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Mark, Did you happen to know that unfortunatly, the 1st
"Blackhawk Down" was from the 9-101st Avn, in Sept of that
year? -- also shot down by an RPG.
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Mark Bowden
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Yes, I did know. There will be more mention of the incident in the book. Thanks.
MB
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B Cooper
|
Wichita, Ks
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Your series was excellent. The courage of these soldiers
under fire was equal to that displayed by US soldiers from
Valley Forge to Omaha Beach to Al-Jabial. It only makes one
hope that the President will listen to others, like Bob
Dole, who have been there before spending young lives like
this again in the pursuit of nation building. I hope your
son remains safe and out of harms way! BAR NONE!
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks.
MB
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Rick
|
Chandler, Arizona
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Why didn't the US declare war on Somalia after these events? With the full might of the US military machine this outlaw nation could have been wiped clean and rebuilt into perhaps a nice vacation destination, (they do have very nice beachs.)
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Mark Bowden
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Lots of sharks, though. As I understand it, Mogadishu had slaughterhouses along the beachfront for many years, nurturing quite a crop of shallow water feeders.
MB
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Rick
|
Eagan, MN
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Do you mention the action of a 12 man SEAL detachment in
the rescue operation? The Navy broke with the usual
tradition of secrecy by publicly recognizing five members
of the team with Silver Stars presented by President
Clinton at the White House.
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Mark Bowden
|
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Some of the actions of John Gay, Homer Nearpass, Howard Wasdin and others are in the newspaper series and there will be more in the book. I was aware they were decorated, Rick. As of now I'm planning to have a more complete accounting of awards in the book, due out this October, Atlantic Monthly Press.
MB
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Chew
|
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
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|
Thank you for a riveting account, and I hope to be able to
read more of the American account of the Malaysian efforts
in the battle. The APC Malaysian driver who was killed was
posthumously awarded the Malaysian "Pingat Gagah Berani",
the equivalent of your Medal of Honour. As a member of the
Malaysian armed forces, I don't think that there was any
need for Lt Col David to replace our men in the APC with his
"better trained soldiers". I think our men would have done
as well if not better. We are the only army in the world to
have beaten the communists in the jungle in Malaya after a
12 year war!
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks, Chew. I know the soldiers I interviewed remain very grateful for the heroism of your brothers in arms.
MB
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Russell Harom
|
Seattle, WA
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Why VDOLive? What an awful format..
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Mark Bowden
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We're sorry if you've had a problem with it.
MB
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J. Bullinger
|
Fort Rucker, AL
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A: Mark Bowden
I would like to speak with Col. Matthews, and did speak briefly with his wife. If you could help arrange an interview with him and/or Col. Lawrence, I would appreciate it. MB
Reply Back: Mark, I was asking because I didn't see their names mentioned. I commanded a UH-1 Company in Hondo/El Sal in 90-91, but was never approached for an article Soldier of Fortune magazine wrote on one of my aircraft being shotdown. The published story (Jun 93) was full of half truths, exaggerations, and poor third-person details. I just wanted to make sure Matthews and Lawrence had their opportunity to contribute to your great piece of work.
Thanks, Jim jbulling@ala.net
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Mark Bowden
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Thank you, Jim, and I have now met with Col. Matthews.
MB
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david james
|
new york
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|
Wonderful story! When's the movie being made? Have you been approached for the film rights?
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks, David. There has been some interest expressed.
MB
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WC Addison
|
Corpus Christi, TX
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Wonderful book-reminds me of -We Were Solders Once and
Young-. Could you be more specific than Alpha Co. of the
10th Mtn Div? there may be as many a a dozen Alpha
Companies in the 10th. Many of their parent regiments
carry a lot of history in their names. Thank You.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks. It's 2-14 Infantry, 10th Mountain Division.
MB
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Charlie Gaytan
|
Chandler, Arizona
|
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Fantastic story. I'm glad someone still knows how to tell
it like it is, no B.S. required. Has the military taken
any steps to improve it's communications. Talk about data
overload. This book should be required reading for all
military personal.
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Mark Bowden
|
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Thanks, Charlie. I don't know what steps have been taken in the aftermath of 10/3-4/93. I have been getting a lot of requests to come speak before various military groups, so there's plenty of interest in the topic.
MB
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Billy
|
Arizona
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|
Mark: I really admire your series, tho the Arizona
Repugnant clipped it to 27 parts and never informed the
readers that 3 were missing. My question: in 1996, I
believe, I talked to a DOD official who said the army had
made a conscious decision further to diminish marksmanship
training "because it personalizes killing." Obviously, this
flies in the face of the Somalia experience, where smallarms
proficiency was badly needed. Have you heard anything about
the army policy or reactions from SpecOps guys?
Thanks
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Mark Bowden
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I have not. I know the men of TFR were grateful for the weeks of practice they'd had prior to this mission, and more than one has told me that marksmanship saved his life.
MB
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Alan Johnson
|
Monte Sereno, CA
|
|
Oh, I know this is a dumb question, but is the title of your book going to be 'Blackhawk Down?" Is someone taking advanced orders? Great job, I'm looking forward to the book.
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Mark Bowden
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It will be "Black Hawk Down," three words, given that I was informed by a reader that the name of the helicopter in question is Black Hawk, after the Indian chief, not Blackhawk, after the tribe. This choice bit of correct information came too late, unfortunately, to undo the error in the newspaper series or web site (it's embedded in the graphics), but we'll get it right in the book. You could call Grove/Atlantic at 212-614-7910 and I suspect they'd take an advance order. The book is due out in October. I've just got to finish writing it.
MB
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Alex
|
Sunnyvale California
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|
Mark:
Why couldn't the Marine's be involved in this mission? Do
the D-Boys have any Marines in their ranks? A comando force
with Ranges, Marines (Force Recon) and D-boys would be
unstoppable.
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Mark Bowden
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The Marines had the lion's share of UNOSOM I., so maybe that's why they weren't part of the assault force. There were Marines at the airport compound, but none in combat, so far as I know. Delta is strictly an Army unit.
MB
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John Gearing
|
Clifton Park, NY
|
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Great Story. In "World's Most Dangerous Places" authors
contend conflict with Aidid was fueled by then Gen' Sec UN
who had personal axe to grind. Any truth to that? Also,
isn't it odd that Aidid's son was a US Marine in Somalia? I
conclude that mission was Lexington & Concord all over again
but with gunships this time around. Lessons learned?
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Mark Bowden
|
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Thanks, John. I have heard stories about the supposed antipathy between Ghali and Aidid, and some of the Somali Habr Gidr I interviewed believe the whole UN intervention was a plot by Ghali to reinstate their despised rival clan, the Darod (Siad Barre's outfit). I don't doubt that Ghali had it in for Aidid, lots of people did, especially after he started killing UN peacekeepers. The UN resolution that outlawed Aidid and put a price on his head was authored primarily by the US State Department. Ghali went along with it, but was not the driving force. US Ambassador to the UN Madeleine Albright was a major supporter of efforts to get Aidid, as was Jonathan Howe in Mogadishu, and the State Department people there.
As for young Hussein Aidid, now heir to his father's clan, I believe he just happened to be in the Marines at the time. It wasn't that odd. Hussein grew up in California, and like many young men emerging from their teens with no clear career goals in mind, the military was a likely step. I doubt he or anyone foresaw the US military action in Somalia when he enlisted.
I believe, having inherited the clan in Mog, young Hussein is currently AWOL.
MB
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Mike F.
|
Hong Kong (US Citizen)
|
|
I think that there is one thing that needs to be said.
We went in with good intentions, but then our political
leaders decided to take sides in a civil war against a
leader who was clearly supported by a large portion of the
population.
He and they then fought back with a courage and
determination that is frankly astounding.
We can be proud of the skill and power that resulting in a
casualty ratio of 1000 to 18, but what about the courage of
thousands of mostly untrained people who continued to fight
despite that incredible level of carnage?
Does anyone out there think that American civilians in an
American city would fight anywhere near as bravely and
aggressively against an invader?
I think that you should address this. We can dislike the
Somalis, but we should also respect them.
Mike
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Mark Bowden
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I agree, Mike. The book will have more to say about the Somalis. Bear in mind, however, that the courage they displayed was in defense of a warlord who had no compunctions about slaughtering and starving his own people to achieve power. Brave, yes, noble ... no way.
MB
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Rich McDowell
|
Columbus, Ga.
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|
Just read your praise of SLA Marshall. You've got him beat. He often wrote to support false premises.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks, Rich.
MB
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CPT Mike Ryan
|
RJA, 160th SOAR(A), FTCKY
|
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Happened on this site and thought you might be interested in the fate of SFC (now SPC) Ray Dowdy. he was recently tried and convicted by a General Court-Martial here at Ft Campbell for a number of crimes. If you would like more info give me a call @(502) 798-1916.
CPT Mike Ryan, Regiment Judge Advocate, 160th SOAR(A)
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Brian
|
St. Charles, Il.
|
|
When will you be printing out the next chapters, and how
long are you expecting the book to be?
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Mark Bowden
|
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The newspaper series on this Web site is complete. No more chapters coming. The book will be about three times the length of the series.
MB
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Gus
|
R.F., WI
|
|
As a former combat Marine I enjoyed your story, part-
icularly the amount of information you have gathered. Well
Done! As I was reading I could not help but to feel the same
frustration those men must have felt for the lack of
support they did not received when it was most needed. To
the Fallen Men and those still with us....... Ooh-Rah!!
God be with the Families of those beloved Men.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks, Gus.
MB
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Gus
|
R.F., WI
|
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As a former combat Marine I enjoyed your story, partcularly
the amount of information you have gathered. Well Done!
As I was reading I could not help but to feel the same
frustration those men must have felt for the lack of
support they did not received when it was most needed. To
the Fallen Men and those still with us....... Ooh-Rah!!
God be with the Families of those beloved Men.
To Alex-The Marine Corps is a different branch of service.
The D-Boys (Delta Force) and Rangers are units within the
Army. SEAL's are members of the Navy's elite fighting force.
Please remember this for future reference.
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Steve Moran
|
Manahawkinn, NJ
|
|
First of all, Wow! Not just the story, but the entire
package. As an Army vet, reporter, Web designer and now
teacher it astounds me at too many levels to discuss here.
I will be teaching an advanced reporting class at Rutgers
New Brunswick this semester and plan to use it as a case
study. Any chance you or one of the online staff could visit
us?
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Mark Bowden
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We would be honored. You can reach me thru 215-854-2400, and Jennifer, the Online genie, at 215-854-4474.
MB
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Dawn Kilpatrick
|
Fort Bragg, NC
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|
Enjoyed your series, but wonder why you did not talk with
key military people such as MAJOR Dave Stockwell, UN
Spokesman, or Lieutenant General Thomas Montgomery, US
Deputy Military Commander and senior US Officer during the
3/4 Oct 93 Ranger Raid.
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Mark Bowden
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The focus of my story is on the events of 10/3-4/93, and was primarily told from the ground up, so my priority has been to talk with soldiers who fought in the streets. I have spoken with officers on the command staff of the QRF, but never worked my way all the way up to Montgomery. While the ranking US officer in Mogadishu, I think he could tell you that Garrison and his chain of command were entirely separate from his, and were primarily responsible for the assault and subsequent gunfight. I made some early efforts to contact Montgomery without success (he was in Brussels) and I did submit, more than a year ago, a Freedom of Information request for Montgomery's After Action Report, and despite repeated promises the Army has yet to deliver it. When I had success pursuing other avenues, I pursued them more vigorously. I would be happy to speak to either of these two men, but at the moment am bumping up against a deadline.
MB
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Timothy Crowe
|
Minneapolis MN
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|
Thanks for your account. I arrived in Somalia on OCT 14, in
response to the battle. It's a story that needed to be
told. Disturbing how even our most elite can fall victim to
command and control problems. Hope it does not happen in
Bosnia. Thank you. crow0014@gold.tc.umn.edu
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Mark Bowden
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You're welcome, Tim.
MB
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Tim
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Cincinnati, OH
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|
I have corresponded with Col. Hackworth before, so last week
I sent his office an email informing them of this site. I
was sure that they had already been told, but apparently
not. I recieved a response saying that Hack had just looked
into it with great interest. More to follow. Thank you for
this effort. I am dumbfounded at the respect that a member
of the media is showing the young soldiers who assume great
risks. I had become too used to the snobbery and resentment
exhibited by journalists, which the military folks have had
to face since Viet Nam. The socio-economic and cultural
gap, that has existed in this country since WWII, between
those who serve and those that they serve, would be ideal
topic for a future piece. Please consider it. God Bles
You.
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Mark Bowden
|
|
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Thank you, Tim.
MB
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collett ,john
|
Ft. Bragg NC
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|
I have a lot of info from the super 66 bird i was on that
bird i have a 14 page diary i wrote after the mission. I
can be reached at 910-494-6532
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Mark Bowden
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I'll be in touch.
MB
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Collett, John
|
Ft. Bragg NC
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You are missing the hole super 66 story wich is a big part
or chalk 3 as you call it where is my PSG input Sean
Watson? we were the hole south side security for the first
crash site some good men got killed an wounded there where
is that story? please call me for our side of the story.
John M Collett SSG, IN USA (910) 494-6532 or (910) 493-
2347 Thanks
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Mark Bowden
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If you read on, John, you'll see Sgt. Warson is in the story.
MB
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Dan Phelps
|
Amston, CT
|
|
A riveting story. Very well written.
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Mark Bowden
|
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Thanks, Dan.
MB
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Larry Hemstreet
|
Menlo Park, Calif
|
|
I was compelled to read your story because in 1969 I was a
helicopter CrewChief during that other "conflict". The story
you told as a uniquely heroic tragedy may have embittered
many VietNam Vets such as myself. You see we experienced on
a daily basis every event you described in your
narrative. Our nightmare was every mission we flew.
please respond. Lurtch@aol.com
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Mark Bowden
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I have not heard from anyone embittered, Larry. The Vietnam experience has hardly been neglected in our literature. I'll be in touch.
MB
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R.S.
|
U.S.A.
|
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Col. Hackworth is a disgruntled, meanspirited, lying about
his own "supposed" service record and awards, pig. He
criticized good brave men making spur of the moment
decisions, as the arm chair quarterback that he is, and
does not deserve to comment or participate in any reading
or appreciating of any of the events having to do with
October 3-4, you should have left him in the dark Tim, the
world is a better place if that is where he stays.
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Ron Sapp
|
Mukilteo, Wa 98275
|
|
Mark, thank you for the great great article, I commend
you and hope others will too. My son is an 11 year Blackhawk
Pilot US ARMY, going to Bosnia in February..These men are so
Special and Elite...Am a former Green Beret Viet Nam, I
understand it all...Thank you so much. Ron Sapp.
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Mark Bowden
|
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Thank you and your son, Ron.
MB
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Haydn
|
Fort Bragg, NC
|
|
Great series. I feel that Mike Steele doesn't get the credit
he deserves in attempting to maintain control of his
company. He, unlike Delta, did not have the luxury of
commanding an element comprised exclusively of NCOs and
officers. CPT (now Major) Steele is my boss. He is one of
the most disciplined and professional officers I have had
the pleasure to work with. I for one, have full confidence
in his leadership abilities.
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Mark Bowden
|
|
|
I share your respect for Maj. Steele and am grateful for his substantial help and reconstructing this story.
MB
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Steve Moran
|
Manahawkin NJ
|
|
Thanks for getting back to me about the Rutgers class.
I called the number you gave me, and the person who answered
said you were on vacation and had no way to get in touch
with you. If you get this, can you respond to me at
sjmoran@exit109.com. I did get Jennifer's voice mail and am
also sending her an e-mail Thanks.
Steve
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Mark Bowden
|
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I'll be in touch, Steve. Sorry you had trouble reaching me.
MB
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Response to Haydn
|
FBNC
|
|
The only credit Maj. Steele deserves is for mucking up his
Ranger Company. This is why he is pushing a desk in the
82nd and not the Ranger Regiment. The Special Operations
Officer Corps did not want to send up a flag indicating one
of their own had screwed up and quietly shipped him off.
Talk to some of the men who had served under him in Somalia
and their view will differ from yours. Rangers are probably
safer with him in a Staff Position.
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John T. Scott
|
Augusta, Maine
|
|
THIS IS NOT A QUESTION...
I just wanted to thank you for the superbly written articles
appearing in the "Blackhawk Down" series. They truly moved
me, and gave me a new understanding of the realities of war.
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Mark Bowden
|
|
|
Thank you, John.
MB
|
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Jason Leone
|
San Jose, Ca
|
|
After spending four months in Mogadishu as a Sergeant in the
Marine corps during this time, I felt a sense of
helplessness and anger. Thankful that I made it out of
there. I'm proud of your justified exposure of this untold
story of American bravery, and survival. Thank you.
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Mark Bowden
|
|
|
Thank you, Jason.
MB
|
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John L
|
Knoxville, TN
|
|
Great piece of writing. The Ranger NCO's seem to be shortchanged somewhat in this narrative, mainly by omission. I expect that this just reflects the interview pattern. I hope that you can fill this gap in the book (which I look forward to buying).
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Mark Bowden
|
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|
You'll find more about the actions of Eversmann, Watson, Lamb and others in the book.
MB
|
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Taylor
|
Cambridge, Mass
|
|
Just two quick corrections to a previous answer. You told
Alex from Sunnyvale that "The Marines had the lion's share
of UNISOM I ..." The acronym should be UNOSOM (UN Operation
in Somalia - O for operation), and all the soldiers in that
operation were from Pakistan. The Marines had the lion's
share of UNITAF (United Task Force, aka Operation Retore
Hope), which came between UNOSOM I and UNOSOM II.
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Mark Bowden
|
|
|
Thanks. I sometimes get lost in the great forest of acronyms.
MB
|
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KRAUSE
|
CA.
|
|
Great series. Absolutly riviting. I loved the way these heros could still find time to laugh against such odds. Can hardly wait for the movie. Sort of like Hamburger Hill.
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Mark Bowden
|
|
|
Thanks.
MB
|
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Sgt Kraig Strapko
|
Mankato, Minn
|
|
As a former Vietnam vet and Special
Forces soldier, I was both intrigued
and appalled at what I read. I hate to
see men put in impossible situations
with nothing to gain in the end...just
like Vietnam.
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Clay "Little Hunter"
|
Wichita, Kansas
|
|
Mark,
I finally made my way to a computer linked up to the www. My dad said he talked with you not too long ago. I would like to talk with you soon. Please contact me whenever you get the opportuntity. Thanks - Clay
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Mark Bowden
|
|
|
Will do, Clay.
MB
|
|
Francine & Gary Milan
|
Newark, California
|
|
We started reading the series in the S. Jose Mercury News
and we are now reading it on your website. It has been
very interesting reading. We missed the program when it was
on Dec. Will it be shown again?
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|
Mark Bowden
|
|
|
The documentary will be shown nationally, but still, sorry, we have no air date. The latest is that CNN might show it on the fifth anniversary. You can order a copy now at 1-800-440-1470.
MB
|
|
Scott,2ndBCo.
|
Rockville, MD
|
|
Many of the D-boys were once Rangers, why was there so much
bad mouthing.Why wasn't Delta given full control of the
operation.Two captains in charge of two independent groups
seems foolish and problems occured because of the
breakdown/confusion in command.It seems we wern't prepared
properly for the worst.
|
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Mark Bowden
|
|
|
In the story you get some of the raw impressions of soldiers under fire. I don't think, in retrospect, that any of these units had serious official complaints about each other as a whole. In the heat of the fight, more experienced NCOs were impatient with younger, less experienced men, and the somewhat different concerns of the two commanders came into conflict in ways that were not foreseen. That's how I see it.
MB
|
|
Scott, BCo.2nd Bat.
|
Rockville, MD
|
|
I worked with both Sgt. First Class Rierson and Shughart,
both excellent soldiers. Sgt. Randy Shughart will always be
held in the highest of honors. Did Sgt. Rierson survive
the battle in Somalia?
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|
Mark Bowden
|
|
|
Matt Rierson did survive the battle, only to be killed in a mortar attack several days later.
MB
|
|
RangerScott
|
Rockville, MD
|
|
In the story, one D-boy talks about putting on civilian
clothes and going back out to find the target. Did Delta
have enough time to properly scout out the region and know
exactly what the were up against? Did they assume the best
w/out preparing for the worst? Was it the higher ups who
had too much faith and not enough brains?
|
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Mark Bowden
|
|
|
Going out into the city as civilians was part of the effort to track down and recover the bodies of dead comrades and also to find Mike Durant. I think Somalia posed some serious problems for intelligence, but there were successes as well as failures.
MB
|
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jim clabaugh
|
san jose ca
|
|
no question, just thanks for a tremendous piece of
reporting. this is truly the best thing i've seen in a
newspaper and on a web site. i can't read it all at once
because of the emotions it fosters. every american should
read this to feel the commitment of our military. i hope
pres. clinton and his wife have read it.
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|
Mark Bowden
|
|
|
Thank you, Jim.
MB
|
|
Mike H
|
Arlington, Tx
|
|
I am greatly impressed by your research and by your ability
to tell a story. Dispite the excellent title, however, I
cannot help wondering why you didn't use an even more
compelling one: "Day of the Rangers"
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Mark Bowden
|
|
|
I toyed with that one. Also Ma-alinti Rangers, which is how they say it in Mogadishu. We liked BHD because it gets right to the heart of the thing.
MB
|
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Steve Keane
|
Chgo., ILL
|
|
Mark:
I've marked the page - I'll read it as I can. Looks exciting with all the maps and audio. I'll pass it on to the Tribune digital cities people. Although I know Knight Ridder and Tribune are "tied at the hip".
Bye.-- Steve Keane
|
|
Mark Bowden
|
|
|
Thanks, cuz. Keep in touch. It was great seeing you and Marty and Nails this weekend.
MB
|
|
Oz
|
Fairfax, Virginia
|
|
Has this series, or will it, been put in for a Pulitzer?
You are truly deserving of that award. Has a date and time
been set for the documentary? I would really appreciate it
if you would get back to me on these two questions. Thank
you.
|
|
Mark Bowden
|
|
|
I believe the Inquirer will be nominating this story for prizes, along with a lot of other very fine work done by this newspaper last year. No date and time yet for the documentary. Sorry.
MB
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|
KBH
|
CLARKSVILLE, TN
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Mark, the name of the helicopter in your article is Blackhawk. One word not 2 as someone has tried to tell you. I have worked on them for over 14 years so I think I know the correct name. Thanks for the article. It was very well written and I appreciate the effort you have put into it. I was invovled in the mission your article is about and I must say it is the most factual article to date I have read.
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Mark Bowden
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Thanks. I think you and I were both mistaken about Black Hawk. Jane's All the World's Aircraft says it's two words, as does Sikorsky, who makes them. I learned too late to change it for the series.
MB
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A.S.T.H
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CLARSKVILLE, TN
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To Cpt. Mike Ryan the RJA for the 160th SOAR: You sir are the typical ticket punching captain the 160th always seems to get. All you are concerned with is punching the right tickets for your career. Your comment about Ray Dowdy's legal problems has nothing to do with this article what so ever. The article deals with the actions of Oct 3rd & 4th and nothing else. So the next time you feel you need to submit something irrelevant to the article do us all a favor, DON'T.
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